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Old Oct 03, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
I make a difference between people who sell gold by using a bot and people who sell gold but farmed it themselves and didn't use a bot.
I can understand real players who are farming for the slot machine addiction, or because they want to play the game legally and to abide by the rules. Yet you're talking of players who farm gold for cash, they'd be really stupid to farm manually when you can use multiple bots or get a real job because either option pays much more. Of course we still have the Chinese farming slave who's paid nothing to allow the rich ebayer to skip grinding.
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Old Oct 03, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38   #122
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True and that's exactly why I'm against bots, but not against farming manually. You can't pay a seller with ingame gold as this is exactly what you get when paying for the service.

The chinese farming slave...but we never talk about millions of people in China who still work in factories for almost nothing. I think the chinese farming slave is not that bad compared to this.
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Old Oct 03, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29   #123
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I got my fissure armor by farming 1500 candy canes during christmas, but I see your point. Although it is highly illegal to sell items on ebay, it is perfectly fine to purchase them. The parties at fault are the people and websites selling the items (sites like [CENSORED BY FROG], please don't go there) Ebay's disclaimer an other legal documents give them no responsibility for whatever gets bought or sold on their site.

That by itself isn't a real problem. However, the real problem is that Arenanet refuses to do anything to ban these accounts. How hard is it to look through the chat logs and find a pair of characters who have never met, one of which is giving 100K or more to the other for nothing in return? Not very. Even if arenanet wasn't the laziest MMO server company on Earth, they still wouldn't have the resources to shut down that many projects. eBay and illegal gold/item sites will always be a problem in GW, and in many MMO's for that matter. At least you can spot ebay rank easily.

Last edited by FrogDevourer; Oct 03, 2006 at 12:54 PM // 12:54..
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Old Oct 04, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24   #124
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Stand around in Ascalon, ID1 sometime. You'll see level 1 and 2s with random names, no guild tags, talking to level 20s with 15k armor... VERY sad when a person in FoW armor is seen talking to a level 2 with the name "Cb Zb"...
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Old Oct 04, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25   #125
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I think we need to get some proper perspective on this. There seems to be way too much importance put on the ‘Status’ associated with FoW armor. As someone who has been playing this game ( like many of you ) since the original Beta period. It took me until 1 week before the release of Factions before I could afford to put 4 not 5 pieces of FoW armor on my W/Mo. ( I wish the wiki had been updated. I would have liked the helmet. ) My main reason for this acquisition was because it existed. This was a goal to achieve. Not so I could walk into any town and have the crowd go ‘Oooh, the Iceman is here’. But just to see if I could do it. I have no problems when I see others wearing the same suit of armor as me. If they gained their prize by ‘Ebay’ then so be it. I know I didn’t. If you know that you earned your prize, then smile (^_^) . After all, this is just a great, fun, distraction from the daily grind of the office.

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Last edited by Sir Iceman; Oct 04, 2006 at 07:39 PM // 19:39..
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Old Oct 04, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43   #126
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I personally don't give a crap if someone ebays money for this game, especially if all they are doing is buying armors. Their outrageously priced Fissure Armor has the SAME stats as everyone elses 1.5k armor. I don't see players with Fissure and think to myself "OMG that player is soooo godly". They are nothing special.

OP, you are upset that you "worked" hard to get your "legit" set of Fissure and its not "fair" that so many people didn't farm like hell to get theirs. Well, I guess that just life and get over it. Not trying to be too harsh but the fact is that every MMO that has items, weapons, armors, etc. that are considered "better" than normal, and lots and lots of people are going to cheat/ebay to get said items. There is no way around it. Anet does a pretty damn good job trying to avoid the "Leet Loot" trap that so many other games fall into. Look at Guild wars weapons. Besides something having "perfect" mods, the only difference is the look of the weapon. Same with the armor. This helps eliminate everyone clamoring for the same "leet" gear. Is a Crystalline Sword better than a flamberge with the same mods? NO. At least Guild Wars keeps a level playing field regarding items in the game.

So if people want to be completely stupid and pay real money for in-game stuff then I say let em. It does not affect me or how I play the game in the least.
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Old Oct 04, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02   #127
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Anyone could simply play GW for 12 months, saving 3k per day, and he/she will have the money for a FoW armor plus green weapon. So, every PvEer with more than 12 months playing, could have a FoW armor at this time.
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Old Oct 05, 2006, 07:46 AM // 07:46   #128
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I have FoW armor.. nice weapons etc and it disgusts me that when i got to Ascalon Int1 i see people simply buying money... sites posting there where to buy money... however the people that seem to buy moeny are eather rank9+ Ha players OR low lvl's and wammos with their Platemail chest and FoW legs and boots. When i am trading weapons etc i CHANGE to a 1.5k set of Droks armor just so i can sell my items, people semm to think having FoW either makes me an e-bayer OR a idiot who scams people and charges exremely high prices... and that because i have FoW that i will sell them really cheap or give to them for free. -_-
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Old Oct 05, 2006, 07:51 AM // 07:51   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Silver Star
I have FoW armor.. nice weapons etc and it disgusts me that when i got to Ascalon Int1 i see people simply buying money... sites posting there where to buy money... however the people that seem to buy moeny are eather rank9+ Ha players OR low lvl's and wammos with their Platemail chest and FoW legs and boots. When i am trading weapons etc i CHANGE to a 1.5k set of Droks armor just so i can sell my items, people semm to think having FoW either makes me an e-bayer OR a idiot who scams people and charges exremely high prices... and that because i have FoW that i will sell them really cheap or give to them for free. -_-
Yep yep same problem here. I got 2 FoW's but on both charaters also a "merchant suit" when im selling stuff. People think real farmers dont have big armors lol, whats the point behind farming then
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Old Oct 05, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58   #130
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I dont farm anymore havnt for about 6 months so im not even a "farmer" yet still gotta hide my fow when i wanna buy/sell something.
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Old Oct 05, 2006, 08:04 AM // 08:04   #131
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I have a question to anyone who doesn't have a problem with the "eBay culture": If Anet was to put 100k packages in their online store, would you be alright with that?

Essentially, if they do nothing to stop these people, and they just sort of -allow it-, that's about the same thing as selling it themselves. It cheapens the whole game if that were to happen, why wouldn't this? You say it doesn't affect you, and shouldn't affect others, but do you realize the impact of a culture like this becomming rampant just because it's accepted?

Honestly, as I said in my other post, it's not even our property to begin with. You're an idiot if you sell virtual things that aren't even yours, and you're even dumber if you buy these things with real money.

As Forrest Gump said: "That's all I have to say about that."
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Old Oct 05, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37   #132
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That's an interesting question arcanemacabre...So let's take a look at the current situation. The system is not flawless at the moment. For the one who buys gold it doesn't matter who sells it but if one can give the money to Anet, it can be used for developping purposes or whatever. So I prefer a system where the real cash gets in Anet's hands. Unless there is another way.

In essence it's not that much different than for instance the skill packs. It all comes down to one thing, increasing the gaming experience. Saving time, get additional skills or whatever.

Following your logic, it's stupid to buy a virtual game like this in the first place. As it's not yours. So why buy it? Because it's fun and you pay for a service. Why buy gold? Because it's fun to be rich and able to get rare skin items and fow armor for those interested in it. You pay for a service that's been offered.

Is it stupid people want to increase their gaming experience? I don't think so. As I said before it doesn't matter if it's game gold, skill packs, paper or a bag of air. I would even call it ignorant and naïve if you think so otherwise.

You can be against the principle of things, but one can't be ignorant to the real situation. You say it will cheapen the whole game which is not true as the game has been cheapened from the moment it went online just by having a not flawless system. In a perfect system we wouldn't even have this conversation.

On a side note...For me GW is the best game I ever bought, price quality thingy. I started playing since euro release and I feel I will be here for a long time. I have confidence in Anet. A lot of things in GW are not perfect but what is. When I bought my first fow armor with my own farmed gold, it crossed my mind it's not fair you can ebay it, but since then I widened my view on the matter. It's not just black and white, there is something called grey.

Last edited by Gun Pierson; Oct 05, 2006 at 09:52 AM // 09:52..
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Old Oct 05, 2006, 09:59 AM // 09:59   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Following your logic, it's stupid to buy a virtual game like this in the first place. As it's not yours. So why buy it? Because it's fun and you pay for a service. Why buy gold? Because it's fun to be rich and able to get rare skin items and fow armor for those interested in it. You pay for a service that's been offered.
How does that follow my logic? When people buy in-game gold or items, they're not buying content or gameplay, they're buying essentially 'cheat codes' that allow them access to that content quicker. Besides that, you're paying for a 'service' that's not theirs to sell, despite it being offered. I do believe Anet actually has the right to sell their game, that they created.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Is it stupid people want to increase their gaming experience? I don't think so. As I said before it doesn't matter if it's game gold, skill packs, paper or a bag of air. I would even call it ignorant and naïve if you think so otherwise.
"Increasing their gaming experience" is such a subjective term it's not even funny. What if someone's idea of increasing their gaming experience meant that they had full control of everyone's character in the game. They would be able to take any item of their choosing from eveyone's stash, and with one button, kill all players of an opposing team in PvP. Is that stupid?

Just because people want something doesn't mean it's just OK to give it to them. What 'increases the gaming experience' for some, hampers it for others. PvE is all about getting rewarded for playing. Not only do you get to have fun killing things, but you get stuff for it, too! That's the general idea. Straight up buying your rewards kinda defeats that purpose, don't you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
You can be against the principle of things, but one can't be ignorant to the real situation. You say it will cheapen the whole game which is not true as the game has been cheapened from the moment it went online just by having a not flawless system. In a perfect system we wouldn't even have this conversation.
You're so right on that last part, Gun. The fix shouldn't be band-aids and candy, though. The fix should be deep-rooted, a fix of the game mechanics itself. They need an auction house, they need major trade improvements, they need mod trader NPC's. These ideas are the things we as players should be defending, not people who skirt the whole process for an easy out.
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Old Oct 05, 2006, 10:35 AM // 10:35   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
How does that follow my logic? When people buy in-game gold or items, they're not buying content or gameplay, they're buying essentially 'cheat codes' that allow them access to that content quicker. Besides that, you're paying for a 'service' that's not theirs to sell, despite it being offered. I do believe Anet actually has the right to sell their game, that they created.
Well yeah and so running and powerleveling services are in a way the same. I woudn't call it cheat codes though but short cuts. It's a faster way to get from point a to b. Anet indeed has the right to sell their game and that's why I prefer they get the cash if there is no other way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
"Increasing their gaming experience" is such a subjective term it's not even funny. What if someone's idea of increasing their gaming experience meant that they had full control of everyone's character in the game. They would be able to take any item of their choosing from eveyone's stash, and with one button, kill all players of an opposing team in PvP. Is that stupid?
Yes it's very subjective. But you have to look at the supply at hand. You can't buy a service that gives you the option to control everything, but you do can buy other services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
PvE is all about getting rewarded for playing. Not only do you get to have fun killing things, but you get stuff for it, too! That's the general idea. Straight up buying your rewards kinda defeats that purpose, don't you think?
I agree. But using shortcuts for things already achieved in the game doesn't interfere with that point of view in my opinion. Also some people are limited in time to play this game. Such a person can have a job, be a father etc. He could loose his job, live of wellfare and stay at home all day playing gw. Or he can satisfy with collector's items and some greens or he can trade some of his earned money for playing time and gets 1000k game gold. The latter seems to be the grey zone that may suit him the best.

Last edited by Gun Pierson; Oct 05, 2006 at 01:52 PM // 13:52..
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Old Oct 05, 2006, 01:32 PM // 13:32   #135
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I never understood why Gold is included in the game. An economy based on money might be the only thing we can imagine in RL (or that works for that matter), but this does not have to be the case in fantasy.

Just throw in some items, which are always customized to the character and are linked to accomplishments in the game, and you'll have your way out. No short cuts to get them and people seeking rewards would be fine.
let's see what the Sunspear title track will have to offer. It did unlock the attribute points after all, maybe it can unlock vanity armor and skins later in the game. the only downside is, that you can grind your Sunspear rank pretty badly, but then again you can grind anything if you really want to, even red iris flowers.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11   #136
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well, if people choose to ebay their guild wars armor instead of wasting their life farming, thats their choice, their money, it has nothing to do with any of you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
I have a question to anyone who doesn't have a problem with the "eBay culture": If Anet was to put 100k packages in their online store, would you be alright with that?

Essentially, if they do nothing to stop these people, and they just sort of -allow it-, that's about the same thing as selling it themselves. It cheapens the whole game if that were to happen, why wouldn't this? You say it doesn't affect you, and shouldn't affect others, but do you realize the impact of a culture like this becomming rampant just because it's accepted?

Honestly, as I said in my other post, it's not even our property to begin with. You're an idiot if you sell virtual things that aren't even yours, and you're even dumber if you buy these things with real money.

As Forrest Gump said: "That's all I have to say about that."
Youre and idiot if you sell virtual things that aren't even yours, and youre even dumber if you buy these things with real money. --------- Well, think of it this way, why should someone spend 3 hours a day for months selling and farming, when they can work overtime for a few hours on a saturday, and get assured results instead of constantly staring at that snow casting prot spirit and heal breeze, you are blowing things out of proportion, im not with ebaying, not against it, but im sure as hell against farming.

Last edited by blackbane; Oct 06, 2006 at 03:20 AM // 03:20..
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thVariety
I never understood why Gold is included in the game. An economy based on money might be the only thing we can imagine in RL (or that works for that matter), but this does not have to be the case in fantasy.
Money is very much a part of very many games. Board games, single player computer games, single player console games, MMOs, even D&D. If everybody in the game automatically got everything they needed, there wouldn't be appeal to a lot of people. Having nice, shiny items is an accomplishment for some, and some enjoy working toward it and are happy with themselves when they get it.

Could a different system be set up to still obtain said nice, shiny items? Of course. Money, however, is the easiest to impliment and understand (for most) though, considering the real world is so very money driven.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46   #138
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Originally Posted by blackbane
Well, think of it this way, why should someone spend 3 hours a day for months selling and farming, when they can work overtime for a few hours on a saturday, and get assured results instead of constantly staring at that snow casting prot spirit and heal breeze, you are blowing things out of proportion, im not with ebaying, not against it, but im sure as hell against farming.
Think of it this way: Why does anyone have to?

There are a lot of things in life I want. I want a million dollars. Sure, I could work really hard for it, and eventually earn it myself. Or I could just go and steal it.

Which is the right way to do it?

I may be blowing things out of proportion to an extent, but only to show my point. I've already laid out that it's against Anet's rules, and they can ban you for selling, or 'aiding and assisting' in the selling of in-game items and gold. Now I'm simply laying out my reasons for being personally against it. I have just as much reason to speak out against eBaying as you do against farming. Although, Anet actually has no problems with farming.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56   #139
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I've never bought 15k armor for any reason other than that I like the way it looks on my character. Since I'm going to be looking at my character the whole game, I want them to look cool. I don't have FoW armor, nor do I plan to save up for any, simply because I don't have any characters where I think the FoW looks better than some of the cheaper options.

I think all these people who regard expensive armor simply as 'an accomplishment,' and get it just to 'prove something' is kind of silly. Yeah, it can be neat when you have an armor that few others have (I had 15k kurzick assassin early on, I didn't see a lot of others like it), but I'm not such a petty child that I get upset when other people have it, too.

I don't follow the logic that making money by selling virtual property that isn't yours makes you an idiot. It would seem that it makes you a shrewd businessman. I also don't see how paying for either convenience or for something you will enjoy makes you "dumb." Everyone is just a big, dumb friggin' moron, huh?
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill
I've never bought 15k armor for any reason other than that I like the way it looks on my character. Since I'm going to be looking at my character the whole game, I want them to look cool. I don't have FoW armor, nor do I plan to save up for any, simply because I don't have any characters where I think the FoW looks better than some of the cheaper options.

I think all these people who regard expensive armor simply as 'an accomplishment,' and get it just to 'prove something' is kind of silly. Yeah, it can be neat when you have an armor that few others have (I had 15k kurzick assassin early on, I didn't see a lot of others like it), but I'm not such a petty child that I get upset when other people have it, too.

I don't follow the logic that making money by selling virtual property that isn't yours makes you an idiot. It would seem that it makes you a shrewd businessman. I also don't see how paying for either convenience or for something you will enjoy makes you "dumb." Everyone is just a big, dumb friggin' moron, huh?
So basically, the entire first part of your post agrees with my point of view, while the second disputes it? Not following you, here. It is 'silly' to regard something that simply looks nice as an accomplishment and something to prove. That's my point. Hit it on the head.

The point of expensive anything in the game is simple - gold sink. Once you play PvE long enough, you simply have way more gold than the simple, cheap max items can absorb. There needs to be end-game content to waste money on, thus gold sinks. If it's something you personally really want, and choose to save up for, then it can be a personal goal, for those that need any personal goal besides skill.

Attempting to sell anything that isn't yours is just simply illegal. As I said in my example in an earlier post, it's like trying to sell a sand trap in someone else's golf course. Sure you paid for a membership, it doesn't mean you own it. That is stupid, in my eyes. If you want to call it shrewd, fine, I can call cows chickens. It's all a matter of opinion. Disputing opinions based solely on how you perceive things is stupid, though.
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